Jim Bovard

Sunni: Sure; but given how long some of the ag subsidies and whatnot have hung around, it can't be surprising that AmeriCorps is still in existence. But back to you, Jim: Not only do you stay sane, but you seem very relaxed and friendly. How do you do that? It was a lot of fun to talk with you some after your Freedom Summit presentation; I remember wishing I could laugh about it all the way you do.

Jim: Ernie Hancock and Marc Victor do such a good job of making the Freedom Summit a pleasant experience for speakers and attendees. There were so many fine folks who came to that event. It is easy to be friendly with the kind of fine folks at that Phoenix gig. I am not as friendly when dealing with TSA weevils. I enjoyed the chance to catch up with you there—you bring much enthusiasm and joy to your speeches. You have a vivacity that is regrettably uncommon among libertarians.

Sunni: Gosh ... Well, thanks Jim. To me, freedom isn't some dry academic subject ... it's real, it's my life, and other people's lives we're talking about here. And I have never been anything if not passionate. Marc and Ernie deserve a lot more recognition than they get for the Freedom Summit. Even though it ended up costing me money to go last year—and that was entirely my doing, not theirs—I had such a great time that I plan on going back this year if there's any way possible I can. Maybe you and I could offer a workshop on enjoying personal freedom while political and economic freedoms go down the crapper. You could lead meditation sessions and I'll provide the food! [laughs]

Jim: Hmmm... Well, I'm sure the food would be top-rate!

Sunni: [laughs] It's been a long time since I read Feeling Your Pain, but I remember being horrified by a lot of what you covered. I know I'm not the first to say it, but Bushnev makes me think back wistfully to the Clinton days. And Bush and his cronies are fundamentally just an extension of Clinton et al ... I mean, how much difference is there really between Ashcroft or Alberto Gonzalez and Janet Reno? And what's really scary to think about is what will come next. I just don't see things getting better before they get much worse ... do you?

Jim: I thought Reno would be the worst attorney general for a long time, but Ashcroft officially trumped her on December 6, 2001, when he proclaimed that Those who scare peace-loving people with phantoms of lost liberty ... only aid terrorists for they erode our national unity and ... give ammunition to America's enemies. Reno's power grabs and horrendous abuses appeared to many people as anomalies. Yet Ashcroft and Gonzales seem determined to carve out the political principles for absolutism.

I don't see things getting better any time sooner, but I don't have the gift of prophecy.

Sunni: Right; and it's hard to laugh at prospects that are worse than what we've already seen.

Jim: This is part of what I like about your message—that people need to enjoy their own lives—to live free on a personal level and not wait for some grandiose political reform to redeem and give purpose to their daily existence.

Sunni: Right; that strategy seems to me to just enslave them to what they hate in a more subtle, but just as destructive way. Has covering national politics for all these years changed your political views? Have you become more cynical or less optimistic because of all you've found out about the political process?

Jim: I was never an optimist regarding politicians or political processes. Maybe my cynicism rose along with Bush's approval ratings, though I have not noticed a comparable decline since Bush's ratings fell.

Sunni: You mentioned impeachment earlier; do you think that idea's going to go anywhere? And if it did among the plebes, would Congress do anything or would it be even worse than the Clinton debacle?

Jim: It is encouraging that more people are talking about it. This is a sign that many Americans are not politically brain dead, and that they still have some spirit of resistance in their blood. I think if the files in the White House were opened, the abuses and power grabs would be so stunning that the Republicans would suffer far worse at the polls in November than they currently expect. Bush is still president in part because we have probably seen only the tip of the iceberg of his abuses. Unfortunately, the media and the political establishment have acceded to nearly-boundless presidential secrecy.